Small Screw gate quick links are baaad.

[mungeclimber]

http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/fallforces.htm

Toprope falls develop lower impact forces, but can still load the anchors as much as mild leader falls. In live drop tests using a dynamometer to measure peak loads, we generated over 1000 pounds in top-rope falls when there was slack in the system or the wall was so steep the climber swung out when he fell. Because the failure of a top-rope anchor would likely lead to a serious or fatal accident, make sure top-rope anchors are as strong as those you would set for a belay.

Here's one article mentioning the testing of toprope falls generating forces in excess of 1000lbs.

My recollection was that in at least one set of tests (not necessarily this articles' tests), forces up to 1800 were generated. As a result, that's why I never use the smaller screw gates on my anchor set ups (1760lbs).

edit - subject title for clarity only talking screw gate quick links. Not carabiners.

[NateD]

Are you talking about quick links or screw links, munge? 5/8" or smaller?
What do you prefer to use?

[John]

At 1760# per 5/16" quicklink times two( two bolt anchor) =...........calculating........calculating.......3520#'s total load strength evenly shared between the two bolts.

Depending on the intended use of rigging hardware (such as for lifting people as opposed to lifting "stuff") the rated strength marked on the item is actually up to 50% or more of the tested failure strength. Ask the Dan Merrick Laboratories to break some, he has the rig for it. Or I bet he has already.

Why would you toprope from quicklinks when you can simply clip the hangers with draws? The quicklinks are for rapping only.

[YETI]

Pretty sure we are talking about mini locking carabiners right munge?

1,800lbs in a TR fall?  Man, that would be hard in the real world me thinks.

Like a monster loop of slack, and a overhanging fall?

[susan]

O man, and I liked my small screw gate carabiners. 

Isn't it the more slack, the less the impact unless there's so much slack there's impact.

[mungeclimber]

At 1760# per 5/16" quicklink times two( two bolt anchor) =...........calculating........calculating.......3520#'s total load strength evenly shared between the two bolts.

Depending on the intended use of rigging hardware (such as for lifting people as opposed to lifting "stuff") the rated strength marked on the item is actually up to 50% or more of the tested failure strength. Ask the Dan Merrick Laboratories to break some, he has the rig for it. Or I bet he has already.

Why would you toprope from quicklinks when you can simply clip the hangers with draws? The quicklinks are for rapping only.

1. Assumes even spread of weight distribution, generally.
2. Rated strength whether over built or not can be subject to manufacturing flaws.
3. You wouldn't toprope through them regularly. Sessions you use your own gear. But why put in something you can't let the last person top rope through?  e.g. I lead Mrs. Munge up, I don't want her to clear gear and loop back in, so I lower her often times. It would be nice to be able let her TR that one time through the anchor set up so that I don't have to relead.  *** This in no way suggests that Mrs. Munge weighs 1760lbs. ***

 

[daniel banquo merrick]

What's wrong with small screwlocks? The article doesn't mention them. I have a bunch of Trango SuperFly Screwlocks, like them and use them often. They about have the same load rating as carabiners generally do.

Strength - Gate Closed: 24 kN (Major), 7 kN (Minor)

Strength - Gate Open: 9 kN

24 kn is 5395 lb

I guess we are talking about quicklinks. The Chinese ones suck.

[mungeclimber]

Pretty sure we are talking about mini locking carabiners right munge?

1,800lbs in a TR fall?  Man, that would be hard in the real world me thinks.

Like a monster loop of slack, and a overhanging fall?

I don't know what length of slack it would take, but a big guy like me flailing around, and a stoner belayer?  Happens all the time.

Not 'mini locking biners'.

Talking about oval shaped screw gate quick links.

[mungeclimber]

What's wrong with small screwlocks? The article doesn't mention them. I have a bunch of Trango SuperFly Screwlocks, like them and use them often. They about have the same load rating as carabiners generally do.

Strength - Gate Closed: 24 kN (Major), 7 kN (Minor)

Strength - Gate Open: 9 kN

24 kn is 5395 lb

I guess we are talking about quicklinks. The Chinese ones suck.

screw gate quick links. NOT Trango.

[daniel banquo merrick]

I bought some 5/16" stainless quicklinks on Ebay once and tested a few. The threads didn't engage on one end and they pulled open at something like 1500lbs. I sent them back the the seller and he relisted them as 1500 lb capacity. I suppose somebody bought them.

Here's a photo of some tested quick links. The made in Thailand 5/16" failed at 14,600 lbs. The unmarked SS 5/16" is probably the same batch held 15,700 lbs and didn't fail although my test rig did. The 1/4" carbon steel went at 4950 lb.

Anyway, quicklinks are fine if you buy good ones. It is hard to tell good ones without testing. They are not well or accurately marked. If there are marks they are not consistent as to whether they indicate working or failure load.

Pretty hard to check capacity if you didn't buy or test them. That's why I never clip them for anything but rappels.

If you need to test something, I can do up to 20,000 lbs in the garage if you come by and help.

[daniel banquo merrick]

Here's a SS 5/16" Marked safe working load (SWL) 1940 which I assume is lbs. It broke at 5810 lb.

5810/1940 = 3.0 safety factor

[mungeclimber]

I bought some 5/16" stainless quicklinks on Ebay once and tested a few. The threads didn't engage on one end and they pulled open at something like 1500lbs.

Anyway, quicklinks are fine if you buy good ones. It is hard to tell good ones without testing.

Yikes! the SS ebays failed at lower rated load than the carbon ones I see around various places?!

Exactly my point. You can't know in advance which are good and which are bad, unless you batch test the ones that are purchased over the counter. So on the whole, we should force everyone to go up a notch from the cheapo 1760lbs ones.

[SoYo Climber]

Hahahaha.  This is too good...  Way to cover your rear.

*** This in no way suggests that Mrs. Munge weighs 1760lbs. ***

Hahaha, ahaha, haha. 

I obviously got a kick out of that.  Simple minds easily amused and all that I guess.

Just say no to links.  Use ring hangers or rapp hangers.  I've started to migrate away from links entirely, although I may have some in place on previous routes done in the area.

[susan]

O yah, by the way that did give a good giggle alright

[mungeclimber]