Southern Yosemite Climbing Discussions

Southern Yosemite Categories => General Discussion => Topic started by: John on April 02, 2014, 10:49:05 am

Title: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 02, 2014, 10:49:05 am
Which is correct? Preferred?

I think dike is technically correct in geological terminology but it appears to be interchangeable too.

I simply like the word runnel and use it regularly but it is not universally understood as a rock feature though. Waterchute, chute, what else is there?
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: mungeclimber on April 02, 2014, 11:01:28 am
Dike is correct.

Dyke is not.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dyke


Runnel connotes smaller. A waterchute can be larger, I would say big enough for a person at least. cf dictionary.com on the two word noun of water chute.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 02, 2014, 11:27:12 am
Wikipedia says dyke is ok.

I have had more than one person ask, "what is a runnel?"

this is  why I am inquiring about other names for this feature.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: mungeclimber on April 02, 2014, 12:32:15 pm
Not seeing a clear equivocation on wiki.

dike is geology

dyke is lesbian reference, often pejorative.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 02, 2014, 04:27:37 pm
Wikipedia has both:
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_%28geology%29 (http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyke_%28geology%29)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike_%28geology%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dike_%28geology%29)

At this point, I don't want to do too many experimental searches using either spelling if you know what I mean. The banner ads on my work computer might get a little "spicier".

I am fully aware of the slang version which is also referred to in climbing such as the dike climb Lesbian Love on Upper Phantom Spire in Tahoe.

However:

run·nel
/ˈrənl/
noun
noun: runnel; plural noun: runnels

    1. a narrow channel in the ground for liquid to flow through.

This appears to be an obscure word even in climbing.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: daniel banquo merrick on April 02, 2014, 05:11:32 pm
I've known lots of dykes in my day - they are people. I've always used dike for the rock feature.

What do you call a runnel that follows a dike?

Dunnel
Dinnal
Dikel
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: NateD on April 02, 2014, 09:52:20 pm


However:

run·nel
/ˈrənl/
noun
noun: runnel; plural noun: runnels

    1. a narrow channel in the ground for liquid to flow through.

This appears to be an obscure word even in climbing.

I'm not sure I recall hearing the word "runnel" used in climbing before we started using it to refer to the unique water features on Lost Eagle and beyond. Maybe we had heard it somewhere. Those features just didn't seem like the more commonly referred to "grooves" or "waterchutes". Now I'm curious if the term has or had been used elsewhere, in other climbing areas, and how long ago it started. Need to look and see if it was used in the Spencer guide, or Robbin's notes, for instance. Or in descriptions of stuff in Tuolumne, or for Bart Dome or the Obelisk. Is the term seeming unique to the Shuteye Ridge area, John?
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 03, 2014, 06:23:47 am
That is interesting that you say that Nate, since I think of you guys as the first people I have heard use the word regularly.

The first time I heard the word used in relation to Lost Eagle, I thought it was referring to the protruding features, not the recessed part which matches the dictionary definition better. I am really curious where the word came from now.

Weird, but I think I originally relate the word runnel as a Thai rock feature used along with the word Tufa. Maybe that is where I first heard it referred to. Other than that, the features we are referring to with the word runnel are unique to a handful of areas that I am familiar with like the Southern Sierras (Shuteye, Obelisk, Hoffman,etc) and Cochise.

Does anyone else find runnel to be perhaps too obscure of a word to be used so regularly?
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: daniel banquo merrick on April 03, 2014, 08:12:06 am
Searching Google Books and Google Images for 'rock climbing runnel' seems to suggest that runnel is most often used my ice climbers for water ice that is not steep enough to be a waterfall. Searching for 'rock climbing water groove' seems to find features more like those we find in SoYo. Water grooves doesn't sound as good as runnel but might be better understood by more climbers.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: mungeclimber on April 03, 2014, 08:19:08 am
Runnel stays.

let the masses get a dictionary.

at Pinnacles, 'water streak' is more common, even when the sides of the streak curl around and form a distinct border and feature where a 'runnel of water' stays concentrated.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: NateD on April 03, 2014, 11:25:42 am

The first time I heard the word used in relation to Lost Eagle, I thought it was referring to the protruding features, not the recessed part which matches the dictionary definition better.

Those are ribs or spines.  :)

Then there are the fun adjectives folks have conjured up to describe the great features on SoYo rock, like:

"knobtastic"
"knobalicious"
"runnelicious"
etc.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 03, 2014, 01:50:40 pm
Protruding
Rib
Spine
Fin
Arete
Knob
Dike
Tooth
Chickenhead
Plate
Ridge
Edge
Crimp
Bulge
Offset

Recessed
Runnel
Waterchute
Chute
Crack
Slot
Hole
Pocket
Recess
Groove
Cutout
Indent
Pod
Cave
Off width
Chimney
Fissure
Flare

Many, many, more than these.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: mungeclimber on April 03, 2014, 05:02:39 pm
I like "LFC" for left facing corner, and "RFC" for right facing corner, then add the adjective small, larger, downward.



oh, don't forget 'eyebrow' as a protrusion-like term!
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: susan on April 04, 2014, 07:31:41 am
Dish

I would say belly button, but maybe should steer clear of body part objectifications


Added later - Which is impossible... also commonly used:
Jugs
Nipple
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 04, 2014, 09:31:56 am
Ha ha. If you think about it, in climbing jugs are used in a politically correct fashion since they are not "protruding" as other types of jugs are known to do! Seems to refer to a handle on a jug?.............just realized, that jugs are kind of an odd term for the feature they refer to.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: Gerard(Jerry)Jessurun on April 04, 2014, 09:54:05 am
Along the "Eyebrow" lines......Have heard and used the word "Smile" as a feature.....along with "Ear" as the shapes somewhat resemble those.
Also....."Soapdish" but that kinda protrudes and recesses at the same time don't it?
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: NateD on April 04, 2014, 10:28:53 am
More protruding:

Lip
Pinch
Spike
Horn
Gargoyle (we've all seen 'em!)
Tiki head  ;D
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 04, 2014, 10:48:58 am
Hoodoos
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: Gerard(Jerry)Jessurun on April 04, 2014, 03:57:43 pm
And Lizard Kings!
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 04, 2014, 04:25:19 pm
Doodles!
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: susan on April 04, 2014, 09:20:56 pm
That sounds wizard of ozzy.. off to see the lizRd king...
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: Jerry on April 06, 2014, 08:46:16 pm
We used the term runnel to describe a water groove in Tuolumne back in the 60's
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: NateD on April 07, 2014, 08:16:34 am
Cool- that is simply how they look.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: mungeclimber on April 21, 2015, 05:48:48 pm
And this is how they form...

https://youtu.be/PKQce0w2s6A
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: John on April 21, 2015, 10:07:29 pm
Lost Eagle. Cool.
Title: Re: Dike or Dyke? Runnel or Waterchute?
Post by: NateD on April 22, 2015, 06:37:21 am
Nice find, munge! That is a lot of water.