1/4" bolts and hangers

[mungeclimber]

Eventually enough modern climbers with 3/8" as the standard will replace belay "anchors" for sure.

[John]

I think the FA party had the least scary experience with the 1/4" hardware since it was new and they may know the quality of the rock and hole and act accordingly. Everyone from then on would have a progressively scarier experience. Eventually there would be a point that a party could be putting their well being on the line more than the FA!

[daniel banquo merrick]

I have a box of wej-it 1/4" x 1-3/8" sleeve anchors. If anybody is doing temporary 1/4" bolting you might consider these since they are easy to remove. Simply tighten with a wrench until it breaks, tap in the stud, pull out the sleeve and then the stud. I've tried it and it works well. Much easier to get out than split shanks. You do need some sort of punch, needle nosed pliers and maybe tweezers.

I have about 75 of these in 304 SS if anybody wants some to try. Cost me about $0.50 each. I also have about 75 of the Simpson 1/4" x 1-3/4" wedge anchor in 316 SS if any body wants some which cost me about $1 each.

[DaveyTree]

Banquo, have you done any 1/4” work yet? I saw this after Looking into 1/4” split shanks. I found stainless but could only order them in like 10,000 lots. 1/4” seems great for hand drilling in back country.

[daniel banquo merrick]

Nope, I haven't placed a bolt in two years. Haven't climbed either.

I've been developing and making hand-powered tools for bolt removal. Especially for removing wedge bolts. We can usually remove 3/8" wedge bolts. Sometimes we fail when the threads are gone or some idiot set them in adhesive. I think I've figured out how the get the adhesive ones out but need to do some more testing.

[DaveyTree]

Yikes! Why on earth would they use adhesive with a wedge anchor? Trying to avoid rust?

I have not replaced any bolts except ones that were so rotten they were falling out. Any good tutorials you would suggest?

[daniel banquo merrick]

A big issue with removing bolts is how many types of bolts there are. Each type requires a different method and often different tools. Fun problem solving really. I've made tools specifically designed for one particular bolt.

1/4" split shanks are usually removed by driving wedges under them. Wedges are usually made by cutting a slot in a lost arrow so it looks like a tuning fork.

To get a wedge bolt out, loosen the bolt by taking off the nut and tapping it in with a hammer. Then you spin the bolt, usually with some abrasive grit, until the sleeve wears a groove in the expansion cone. Then you pull it out. The groove in the cone lifts the sleeve out and prevents it from expanding on the cone. People use a power drill to spin the bolt but in Yosemite, Pinnacles and in a wilderness, we use a modified speed wrench.

[mungeclimber]

the hard part is not damaging the heck out of the rock with tuning forks and the hammer.

Dan, I think you or Bruce had vids of the modern technique, yes? 

[daniel banquo merrick]

This shows the tools. A spinning crank and a ball thread puller. The puller can easily generate 6000 lbs force.

https://youtu.be/2gUf5FMefvw

[DaveyTree]

Are you taking all that gear on the wall? That last tool is very specific it appears. Interesting

[daniel banquo merrick]

We usually use this stuff on rappel.

Many different tolls have been made and tried; all thread pullers, acme thread pullers, hydraulic pullers and finally the ball screw pullers. All thread or standard machine threads with a flat washer are about 8% efficient at converting the input work into tension. A ball screw with a roller thrust bearing is about 85% efficient. They are really pretty amazing.

[DaveyTree]

Poking around after using Mark’s old 1/4” hand drill. So much quicker. Found these stainless 1/4” and 3/8” button heads. They are the same concept of the split shank but more of a bent shank. Any thoughts?

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/68010685

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/68010883

It seems to me that the sheer strength on one of these SS button heads would be greater than a wedge anchor in the perspective size due to the increased amount of metal present at the hole entrance. It would seem that putting in threads for a wedge type bolt would be removing metal from the shaft that would weaken the sheer strength. For everything except the steepest and overhanging Stuff I would want more sheer strength. The back country weight factor is also very appealing. What do you think?

[John]

Which type of hand drill is it? Rawl? 5.10? Photo?

Those bent-shaft bolts are probably only strong enough in 3/8" but you can't really pound them in with a typical climbing hammer. They require a mini-sledgehammer to pound in, especially the 3/8". Also, they are really easy to accidentally bend with a bad strike to the point they may permanently bind in their hole and never go all of the way in. Not a good idea for the backcountry. They are however SS and I don't believe you will find a split shaft in SS at all. The SS ones that McMaster Carr sells says the 1/4" has a pull strength of only 210lbs!

Split shafts are pretty bomber, time is their weakness. They simply lose their "spring" that keeps them in the hole when they get too rusty which can be years or decades. That and and sloppy drilling.

Don't get 1/4" hole wedgies, the shaft is actually 3/16" (#10 screw) which is good for hanging a picture of grandma but not enough meat to fall on with any confidence. Really freak out when you see them out in the wild, they are the most common to snap when pulling out with a tuning fork.

I have many homemade SS  hangers for 1/4" if you need any. What you do is tap a split-shaft buttonhead into the hole and they stay in there until they are ready to pound in the hole so they are an awesome and light backcountry rig.

If in your research you run into anyone, probably an aid type person, that mentions the word z-mac or zamac, slap them in the face, they are useless even for grandmas picture!

[mungeclimber]

Zmac!!!!

[John]

Thwap!!!