hi guy's, thanks so much for the hot tip, i am super psyched to see how it works, paint brush works well, but maybe this will work better for my topos, i think that two of the things i do not like about the new shuteye book, grahm's book, is no hand made topos, and on his picture topos it does not show the crux nor where the bolts are, btw daniel, i met your son ford at castle the other weekend, he is a real nice guy, and a good climber as well, thanks again, happy friday and climbing, mike a.